[Music]
I
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Gallow and me gri daily
it becomes more clear that whomever wins
the US Presidency the world is likely to
become an even more dangerous place
Trump dredges ever more Dreadful
rhetoric and the pettiest of insults and
HS them in every direction caring
nothing about who gets hurt Clinton
throws the harder stuff though ballistic
missiles mainly her open threat of War
on Syria Means War on Russia and so must
be accompanied by a barrage of War
propaganda against the Big Bear joining
us to review where America stands or
maybe false is Dr Tom Adam Davis a
lecturer in American history at Sussex
University and author of among others
the upcoming book mainstreaming black
power Dr Tom thanks for joining us the
conventions are over the opinion polls
put Clinton 10 points ahead is the
election all over
too uh I think personally that poll
suggests that Clinton is going to head
for a fairly or has a sizable lead over
Trump at this point but I think the
election will be far closer uh than the
polls currently suggest ultimately it's
going to depend on who who gets out on
Election Day yeah will the people
differential turnout is going to make a
difference yeah it's going to make a
huge difference it's going to make
difference whether those moderate
Republicans who are very uneasy about
supporting Trump are still unwilling to
either not vote or vote for Clinton
whether Bernie ster supporters who many
of whom become very disillusioned by his
endorsement of Clinton and Clinton's
nomination whether they are prepared to
you get out and vote uh for Clinton many
of them say they won't um it also
depends on what happens in kind of key
industrial swing States especially in
the midwest a lot of affected
workingclass white American people who
bought very heavily into Trump former
Democratic voters in many cases um they
buy interest rhetoric about protecting
American jobs bringing jobs back to the
US from uh by transforming American
Trade dollars overseas to protect and I
guess revive American industry um so
there are angry white men in many cases
and there's a lot of those uh uh if they
all turned out especially given the way
they're distributed across the states
that you mentioned particularly in the
midwest that could really affect the uh
the Electoral count in the in the
Electoral uh College one has to say
though uh that with the two least
popular people in America fighting each
other it seems to me that the thing was
wide open for a third party candidate
and Sanders could have been that uh
candidate why didn't he go for that I
think it's difficult to say I mean he he
calls with Dem and has CED democrats for
a long time he's independent obviously
but he's worked in and around the
framework of Democratic party for a very
good reason because it offers huge
benefits for him and it's allowed him to
build the political he has in many cases
it certainly allowed him to you know get
the the air time and and the coverage as
it were to to to build the campaign that
he did but if you'd said you know six
months ago would Bernie Sanders be this
kind of political phenomenon no one
would have suggested that that was
possible it would have seemed very
unlikely the same of course could be
said of trump um so as does he had any
intention of changing from
within I think he does because I think
he obviously is very committed to a kind
of Social Democratic program of reforms
he's he is socialist in his Outlook in
many ways and and many many Young
Americans and and people of color I
buying into that and they like his
vision and I think but I think he wants
to reform the Democratic party or thinks
he can and there is at least initial
sign that that's going to happen so the
kind of one of the biggest most
contentious issues is the superdelegate
issue you know that Hillary got almost
all the superdelegates and if if super
delegates didn't exist and it was just
on a popular vote state to state on on
the Democratic ticket then actually uh
Sanders may have had a much better
chance of of of pipping her to the post
and as part of this the outcome of of
Sanders's kind of progressive movement
that he's uh that he's built is the
prospect of substantial reform of the
super delicate system so they probably
to well let me predict here that if
Hillary Clinton becomes the president
Bernie Sanders will never be heard of
again and no changes to super delegates
uh are going to be worth a row of beans
but that's I suppose a a side issue uh
if Clinton wins the presidency she's
already ramping up the rhetoric about uh
finishing off the Syrian regime implying
a decisive American Military
intervention in the war bringing it into
direct confrontation with Russia there's
an accompanying drum beat of
anti-russian propaganda trying to link
uh Trump and uh Russia Trump and uh
Putin well Trump speaks very positively
about Putin in in lots of ways I think
he admires Putin as a kind of strongman
leader yes I'm not sure we can justify a
war with Russia on that on that basis
but
uh what are the most likely foreign
policy implications of another Clinton
presidency it's difficult to say um I
think
certainly there's a very good prospect
that America will continue to take the
kind of interventionist stance that it
has now to support uh in Syria to back
the rebel uh movements to dislodge Assad
and I guess that in in the short to
medium term they'll always therefore be
in opposition to um to Putin but I think
you're talking about Clinton here quite
liberally but Trump I think it would
also be wrong to think that Trump would
have any less uh belligerent approach to
the Middle East than than Clinton no he
he might trip over getting out of bed in
the night and and press the nuclear uh
button inadvertently or or in a rage
after a fight with his wife or his
daughter I mean I'm not suggesting that
Trump is less dangerous okay but just
that he's less electable and that
Clinton is clearly the favorite to win
therefore we have to think of what the
impact on the world will be if she does
well I think in that case I mean she
obviously stands almost she's the
opposite of trump on many things right
so she wants to uh pursue these kind of
international trade deals or investor
rights deals that Trump is opposing um
she will almost certainly try and
increase or boost America's um place in
the world is in a global leader uh
especially in NATO and is trying to
manage I guess Russian Ambitions in uh
Europe and elsewhere now if Trump gets
it um leaving aside the dangers of them
tripping over and and triggering uh
World War isn't it the case that he's
likely to be more isolationist rather
than uh her ambition to reestablish
American hegemony in the world that
Trump will profer build walls yeah
withraw behind walls that he's going to
build I know well I I I would disagree
on this point purely
because it might seem face value to be
kind of isolationist sense especially
you're throwing up walls and you're
talking about uh America first you know
this kind of classic isolationist slogan
that he's kind of revived But ultimately
if you look at this man's record you he
says he's been against the war in Iraq
and intervention in Libya actually at
the time he supported both uh the first
Iraq war and then intervention in Libya
it's only afterwards when the the actual
outcome or that you became to be
unpopular or or was seen obvious not to
have been a tremendous success that he
backtracked he regularly and has
repeatedly talked about uh essentially
walking back into Iraq and he look at
the map draw a circle around the oil
fields we'll drop soldiers in there
we'll protect the oil fields and we'll
take the oil so he has our oil yeah no
he say well as Rosel said it's it's not
America's fault that God put their oil
under other people's right he's he he
he's not that different uh you're right
in that regard there is one key
difference Clinton knows that to get
people to vote for you it's best if you
don't insult them as an individual and
as a as a class as a group as an ethnic
uh minority and so on is Trump just out
of control do you think or is there some
method in this
madness it's difficult to say isn't it
because Clinton obeys the accepted
traditional rules of political conduct
and behavior and Trump does not in
almost every single respect and but
that's also Central to his appeal that
he's not the establishment that he is
the opposite that he doesn't obey the
rules that he doesn't respect people
like Clinton or Obama or Paul Ryan or
McCain or any of these other kind of
establishment figures neither Democratic
or the Republican parties uh and also
you to talk about the outrageous things
he said there is something very
masculinist white nationalist white
supremacist about this man's appeal uh
it's not an accident that he said some
horrendously misogynistic things about
women you know things he said to Megan
Kelly the uh the Fox News anch is just
utterly reprehensible but there'll be
people who who think that's utterly
acceptable or that's not a problem for
them and the black Liv matters uh
protest are very prominent outside every
rally that he is as well yeah absolutely
um because they know what he stands for
well I mean right at this moment and
you're the expert but why would a black
person vote for him why would a Hispanic
person vote for him why would a Muslim
vote for him uh why would an
educated uh ivy league or east coast uh
type uh person vote for him are there
enough angry
white
undereducated
underemployed to poor people in America
to elect him well uh
possibly I mean possibly depends on the
demographic differential turnout too
doesn't it it does if every white person
votes and only half of the other groups
vote uh then that could still tilt the
difference it could I mean American
elections are almost always close uh the
electoral college system can can make it
seem like one candidate was far far
ahead I mean last time Romney and Obama
it seemed like a fairly clear victory
for Obama but actually the actual
popular vote was really pretty close and
that is normally the case in American
elections it has been for a long time um
you know certainly demographic change in
America means that white Americans are a
far smaller percentage of the population
than they were uh even 40 years ago so
there has been rapid changeing and this
whole Trump forone is actually really
it's a reflection of that is that going
to last uh I mean What Becomes of the
Republican party after November if he
loses that's an excellent question yeah
because I think you know the Republican
Party
the difference between the Republicans
and Democrats here is Republican party
got the candidate that didn't want voed
upon them and the Democratic party got
the candidate wanted but you know the
more popular candidate you might say in
amongst certainly among young people was
the candidate the the anti-establishment
candidate but the Republicans now have
to embrace this anti-establishment
candidate and Republican party seems
with Trump it's no longer about a set of
Republican conservative ideals it's
about one man and a personality and
that's a real change um
how long Donald Trump could endure being
uh I mean if he was if he were elected
um how he'd work with people in the
Republican Party given how many bridges
he's attempted to burn uh and how he's
insulted so many of them uh and how many
prominent Republicans have police F Well
they stayed away from the convention and
even Bloomberg went to the Democratic
Convention right so yeah but no no
Republican former president turned up uh
it was I mean bizarre in that sense or
rather unique I think for such a a
strong albeit silent show of of dissent
of of the Republican or the GOP Elite
but yeah if it's a wrestle for the soul
of the Republican Party well they've
lost on the evidence of uh of the
primaries Dr Tom thanks very much good
luck with the new book thanks for
joining us on the Sputnik the US is a
state founded upon the genocide of the
Native Americans and built upon
widespread slavery followed by a century
and a half of a part height and racial
segregation no wonder it's a mess it's
the slave trade up next don't miss
it welcome back to Sputnik Britain grew
rich on the slave trade not content with
invading other people's countries and
stealing their things we started to
steal the people themselves millions of
them they were chained into the dungeons
of boats and sailed across the seas to
the new world recently discovered by
Europeans miraculous really and the
slaves were traded by most European
countries but the Netherlands where I
was born and Britain where I now live
were the worst offenders and neither has
made amends joining us now to discuss
the campaign for those amends is Juliet
Lopez from the emancipation day
reparations March which took place in
London earlier this week you've done a
fantastic job with this campaign I've
got to say uh just summarize for the
viewers what are the demands of the
reparations
movement the reparations movement and
the March are two separate things the
movement is made up of various
organizations and um I'm a project
manager at one of them which is the
working Action Group and the demands of
reparations is firstly for the
government to address
reparations um in in all seriousness it
is something that um has been on on the
table for uh centuries and is now
spilling over into generation after
generation of people which are here so
what we're looking for is legal reform
and political reform and for the
government to
acknowledge um its responsibility to us
from the colonies and the ex colonies
and us here in England with regard to
its responsibility for slavery and all
the damage and harm that was done as a
result of slavery which still continues
to
today the there's nothing unusual about
such a demand after all uh people still
pay Germany still pays for example huge
reparations to the state of
Israel uh which didn't exist at the time
of the Holocaust against Jews against
many others also but 6 million Jews and
nobody bats an isid about the need to
continue to make reparation for a great
crime why do you think it's so difficult
for people to even listen to the demand
for reparations to the descendants of
slavery I think it's institutional
racism and I also think it's a system of
white supremacy and privilege protecting
itself I think those are the main
factors racism is a disease it's an
awful poison that permeates throughout
this society and uh I've seen lots of
comments uh uh recently which has just
even shown me more so that it something
that needs to be addressed uh within
this Society so I feel that the the
government's approach to it in its of
its own self to to reparations is
ignorance uh of of not knowing or
understanding or want not wanting to
understand our perception and our
experience uh and continual experiences
is just a a naivity upon their part and
I think it's an insult and I think it's
racist out point out racist that's the
way I feel when you and I discussed this
on the radio uh the common
reaction uh from those who weren't
impressed by our uh point of view was
that the slaves themselves are all now
dead and the people in the metropolitan
countries who are alive today were not
alive at the time of slavery so they say
why should someone who wasn't alive
during the slave trade pay reparations
to someone who wasn't alive themselves
as slaves what's your stalk cancer to
that store cancer is that we're still
suffering the damage now uh we suffer it
in so many ways uh our families are
dysfunctional in many ways because of
the inheritance of slavery for example
my mom was overprotective with me as a
child because of she was born in Jamaica
so she was born in a colony before
independence so I'm first generation
born here so it's not so far away as as
what people think as far as I'm aware
the last instance of slavery actually
happened in
1962 so um we are still living the that
experience when slavery was abolished uh
not all English people in this country
woke up and said I love black people
that is not the reality that is not what
happened we still suffer from uh
institutional racism we still suffer
from direct racism and indirect racism
in everything that we do in employment
we suffer racism at school at University
we suffer racism going into the shop you
wouldn't have needed a 1965 race
relations act if we didn't need
permission to go into a shop you know
this is only 1965 we're in
2016 things haven't moved on so much
that the government can still ignore uh
any kind of dialogue with us as though
we don't exist we're still being treated
like animals like beasts uh we're still
being picked up on the street by police
higher than any other P or any other uh
person of any other race we are still uh
being targeted um by the institutions
also and when I say that when a black
man stands in a dock it's a completely
different experience to someone else who
stands even the Home Secretary now prime
minister admitted that on the steps of
Downing Street she didn't explain why
she had been the Home Secretary all
those years when this was the case but
she said that if you're black you're
going to have a worse experience in the
justice system than if you are white so
it was acknowledgement right from the uh
top we never made amends never made
reparations to the slaves and their
descendants but we did pay those who
gave up their slaves tell us about that
well this is interesting as you know the
Emancipation act
1833 uh it took three 30 years for it to
be passed uh um because of the
abolitionists and what you've got to
what I see as as now is that
anti-realists of yesterday so the same
families the same bloodline the same
people that are protecting they
privileged that are protecting and don't
want to lose any status as a result of
it are still there today so um from my
perspective I think that we need to
address this I think there needs to be a
dialogue and I've been saying this for a
long time and it hasn't happened so I
think the slave owners should pay a
refund well if you Gras up now to
today's prices they received hundreds of
millions of pounds in compensation David
Cameron's family was one of the families
that was compensated uh for having to
give up slaves well uh as I said in the
introduction the Netherlands the D they
are you know with the Brits they are the
worst offenders in the Netherland
they're even very more explicit about it
you might you may know that the Dutch
version of Santa Claus has a black pit
along its side which is obviously a
slave you know which traces back to the
slave and the word apart height is Dutch
it stems from the Netherlands we had my
neighbor on the show uh who is uh from
the Netherlands and her expertise is in
the slave trade of the Dutch and she has
initiated projects in Amsterdam mainly
to trace back those slave owners where
you can physically point out this is
this building this humongous mansion
this is where one of the slave owners
lived and so basically we literally
giving a a root a map uh to the slave
owners is that something you want here
as well is that one of the projects
initiative that you'd like to see here
as well yeah kind of naming and shaming
definitely I mean just recently 50
million was given to the Govern that was
given to uh another uh group of people
uh to have a museum and also to have an
educational institution to uh trace and
to celebrate their history but no such
offer was made to us and they were
assigned uh someone from the internal
affairs Department from the government
to do so so I think in all fairness
because obviously there is a sovereignty
and there is a relationship and there is
a responsibility to us we are here in
England we were born here in England and
we suffer here in England that there
should be a dialogue about this there
has to be some kind of consultation on
this and there so defin I mean in London
there isn't even a museum to the slavery
there is in Liverpool isn't called that
uh in duckland in duckland there is an
exhibition it's called sugar and slavery
but it does not do it justice we
recently filmed no we've got two we've
got two Imperial War museums we can have
one Museum which says London London
Bristol Glasgow Liverpool all these big
buildings all these big fortunes were
made of the Blood Sweat and Tears of
slaves and slaves are people kidnapped
from their own country torn out of their
own culture out of the arms of their own
families chained like you put in a boat
and sailed across the seas which if you
survived you then spent the rest of your
life as the the property the physical
property of someone else doesn't get
much worse than that this is a holocaust
on its own it is it is and the worst
part is that we had to buy back our
children we had to buy our freedom we
have not received an income or or a
refund from the the payments that we had
to to to pay the slave owners to own our
own children we were not given any kind
of compensation what whatsoever yet the
slave owners The Riches of London the
companies and corporations that still
exist today still have the legacy of
that wealth you're a great campaigner
thanks very much for joining us on the
Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media watch rattling gri so now
with the both the conventions done and
dusted uh both parties being very
divided what is next Charles Quinn says
it's all red for Hillary rodm Clinton
the mainstream media supports whatever
and Hillary rodm Clinton looks for World
War II and the military industrial
complex plus the banks to get a
payoff well that all sounds like a crazy
conspiracy theory to me about the
reparation uh and whether it's time for
UK to pay up there was an interesting uh
conversation between Lucien Quincy Senna
and Chris saying why are reparations for
Israel considered totally acceptable but
those for black descendants of slaves
dismissed outright to which Chris
responds uh because there are still
people alive who live through the
Holocaust well not many and of course
the reparations don't go to the people
who suffered in the Holocaust they go to
a political state that was founded after
the end of the sac World War so Chris
that answer isn't really an answer and
those are all the tweets for today which
alas means that's the end of the show
you can stay in touch with us on social
media through Twitter rtor Sputnik or
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today goodbye
from me gatri and from me George
Galloway it's been
marvelous